On Friday the Gossip came to town and put on a fantastic show at the Annex with Erase Erata. Mikelanne Northup of the soon-to-be-released zine the area code caught up with Beth Ditto for the following revealing and absorbing interview.

To someone like me, going to see the Gossip play is like stepping into a world where things are good. I don’t feel self-conscious, I won’t analyze the crowd to see if I am the fattest girl in the room, I won’t be made fun of for letting my size 18 hips shake. I won’t fear people knowing that I have size 18 hips! Because in this place, cool is what we make it. I wasn’t able to fully articulate this feeling until I talked with Beth Ditto, vocalist of the Gossip, a three-piece from Olympia (by way of Arkansas) that puts fat activism, queer awareness and the DIY ethic to a disco beat. Their sound is punk rock infused with soul and gospel, and their newest full-length release, Standing in the Way of Control, is their most polished effort to date.

The Area Code: Both you and Nathan (Howdeshell, also known as Brace Paine) grew up in a small town in Arkansas. Was there any sort of underground scene there at all to draw inspiration from?

BETH: We had a scene that was me and Kathy, our old drummer (Hannah Blilie joined the band last year) and Nathan, or Brace, and we had my best friend Jerry who lives in Olympia, who was the reason that I moved to Olympia. Some of us were queer kids, and I was very closeted and very afraid of my sexuality because even though I wasn't afraid of people as much as I was of god, and I just had this crazy scary feeling... but like, we had each other, you know? There were a few other kids that were outside of it and really that was what our scene was, we made it up. We didn't have anything to follow- this was before the internet, you know I moved to Olympia 7 years ago, lived in Portland 3 years, so like before the internet. This was Arkansas, too, which is like, backwoods, shitty equipment, poor education system, just broke-ass schools, so internet wasn't a possibility... all you had was mailorder and zines, and that's it. You had Sassy magazine, which was something that you looked at, and you had the Delia's catalogue. You had these kinds of things, which didn't even cater to fat girls and they weren't necessarily feminist, but Sassy did as best as they could. So for me, I remember myself at eleven, and I was like, oh my god, why am I so mad all the time? Oh, because I'm a feminist and there are things that aren't right in the world. Randomly, somehow, I went to a different school than Nathan and Kathy and Jerry all did, but we met through a mutual person because we all liked Nirvana. Nirvana was the gateway band for us. From that came Sonic Youth and Bikini Kill and Huggy Bear. From that came X-Ray Spex and it got deeper and deeper. That was our scene, there was about fifteen of us. We were still Christian, but it wasn't enforced- it wasn't that we were like "god rules!" at every show, it was we were so afraid of god. We were so scared of god, and questioning god and all these kinds of things- questioning our sexualities, and questioning authority. Putting on shows- Nathan brought Dub Narcotic (Sound System) to Searcy, Arkansas! We had our own things- I had a little band, and Nathan had a band and Kathy had her own band, but we were all really, really tight. We stuck together, and it was amazing because we made it up. All we had was record covers as an example, and lyrics and the occasional telephone conversation.

TAC: How did being from a small southern town shape the Gossip as a band?

BETH: I think part of it is making it up as you go along, because you don't know what is cool. You have to make it up. We grew up broke, we didn't know what rich was- so we were super resourceful. When it came to making clothes, it wasn't just a punk ethic, that we were like, "this looks punk", it was if we don't make this, we won't have anything to wear. It definitely was about if you wanted to wear something cool, you had to make it yourself because you weren't going to find it. You couldn't afford anything out of the Delia's catalogue even if you wanted to, you know? So it was like that- thrifting. It was just despair and feeling alienated and no one really understanding you- Nathan getting beat up all the time, Jerry being harassed, Kathy being forced to go to church. All of those things made you want to rebel even more…and then meeting each other, I think we all inspired each other a lot. When we actually came together, we realized that we were kind of powerful. When we left, there was still a scene that was getting a little bigger, even though now it's really Christian and weird, but when we left, there was actually one punk house in Searcy that Nathan and Kathy had. It was really crazy, Searcy was a college town- I didn't grow up in Searcy, and neither did Nathan or Jerry, but we grew up in smaller towns outside of Searcy.

TAC: You've said in the past that it seems that the Gossip has been overlooked by the music industry because you don't conform to a certain aesthetic that is so pervasive in our culture. It takes a lot of confidence and courage to take a stand against that and really represent those of us who are fat and unashamed of it.

BETH: And who are ashamed, too!

TAC: Do you think people's attitudes about fat, whether in the way they view themselves or others, have changed at all?

BETH: I feel like yeah and no- I feel like there was a time when it definitely was way more in to be fat and self-confident. Anyway, I think now it's on a downfall, I feel like I knew a lot of people dieting who I thought at one time were a serious ally or who were really into the movement- whereas before that was just a no-no. But I feel that's just because of people around them. I don't blame the fat people, I blame the people around them who don't know what it's like to be that person and who aren't supportive, not saying you shouldn't do that, man, that's fucked up- that's not what we do, we're punks- its more like, where is that feeling (needing to diet) coming from? Think about why you feel that way. But it's strange because a lot of us aren't reaching out to each other, and that's really intense too. I think things are changing now- if you had asked me this two years ago, I was have been like, yeah, things have definitely changed. But in the scene, it's funny- I think things are getting narrower and narrower- no pun intended. But in the big picture, you know, Gossip has been in bust magazine, it's been in Venus magazine dealing with the issue of weight and beauty image and conventional beauty standards. At the same time, I feel like that much has changed, people are willing to put us in their magazine. I just did a photo shoot for i-D (magazine) that was nothing but a fashion spread. Someone just came up to me and said, will you do a book on thrifting, remaking clothes to fit fat people? And I was like, yeah, of course! And they approached me with that thought because they had written one, but they were like, "Will you write this book? Because I wrote one but then I realized when I read this article that you had written or this interview with you that no one could use that over a size five." So I was like, sure! I don't know if I'm the person that is going to be any good, I’m not a writer. But I think in that way for me, I can only speak for my experience, the way that we've been accepted into the mainstream music industry has changed a lot in the past three years. But gossip has been a band for seven.

TAC: For me, a punk rock or underground scene starts with girls. I think that in a lot of ways it's really relative to the theory of democratizing a country by first educating the women. What would you say to a young girl who might be hesitant to start a band or do a zine?

BETH: I would say the first thing that comes into your mind- sing it, play it, write it, draw it, and just leave it alone. Don't worry about whether it sounds stupid. Worry about how it's going to affect people, but don't worry about how it sounds in a way- is it good or bad? Because that's all relative. I would also say that I feel like a punk scene begins for me, even as a hardcore radical feminist, it begins with education of the oppressed and the repressed in the minority. The people who are being smashed- people who are queer, people of color, transgendered people, poor people- that's where it begins. There is a bigger consciousness out there that I feel like recently, that's what I'm a part of. I want to be part of a bigger consciousness, not just feminism... because that was my major focus for such a long time that i got so blindsided.

TAC: Standing in the way of control has a really different feel from the other albums you've released. Despite being a result of dark times in your life, it seems to be optimistic and hopeful. How did making this record compare to others, both emotionally and professionally?

BETH: Well, professionally, it was a big difference because it was our third record- we did countless EPs and 7 inches and things like that, so for this record Kill Rock Stars was like, we're going to put more money into it so we can get an actual producer, Guy Piccioto of Fugazi, to produce it. It was really great to have a punk around who was professional but you know, responsible but a really good producer AND came from a punk background with a total punk ethic. So that was really nice. We also got to record in the same studio... it was professional, it was completely different. The first record was recorded in a bathroom.

TAC: I did one in a closet.

BETH: Yeah, recently I just did something in a closet. But not for gossip, for something else, and I was just like, oh the old days! It was so easy then! Anything sounded good! And now I noticed, I'm being really critical of this closet... I was like, this doesn't sound right, we need this and this and this, I'm in a closet, we need more coats!

I think for me, about being optimistic- there's this one song, holy water... ten minutes after we had recorded it, it was all written improvised, all the lyrics just came out at once. Literally ten minutes after that I got a phone call that the uncle who molested me my whole childhood had died. It's really intense. That whole song was about that, and it was just really crazy. I was like, you guys are never going to guess what happened- because I didn't tell anybody what the song was about, it was obvious. I'm close to Nathan, we have a lot of really close ties, we've known each other for years, we know family, things like that. I was like, oh my god, this record is so dark, a lot it was you know, bush had won again, all of these things were going on- Kathy had left the band, and I was just like, I have to live for myself, and a lot of it was just me talking to myself and being like, things are going to be fine... I've been dating this person forever, and we are just so in love and have lived through the hardest times, you know? And that record just totally documented it. And now it's just like, things are good, girl! Basically, things are alright! Shit, they sucked, but we're fine.

TAC: What can we expect from the Gossip and Beth Ditto in the future?

BETH: You can expect a difference in the way that things will be... maybe a little cleaner, maybe a little dirtier, I don't know. The style may completely change, I don't even know what is going to happen. I really don't, that's the beauty of gossip. we never know until we get there... we never know. Things are hardly ever planned... but things may be a little more organized. But for me, you may expect to see some better outfits because my friend is making me clothes. As for Nathan, he's working on things and Hannah's working on things, too. I don't know, there have been solo records we've been talking about for like four years or something... who knows, you never know. A book, maybe. So for Gossip, you never know. We're always on the road.