Signs from Madison's Tea Party
Post by Jesse Russell on 4/16/2009 11:37am
Yesterday, Madison's Capitol Square was flooded with thousands of protesters taking part in a national day of action dubbed the "Tax Day Tea Parties." The majority of the outrage was focused on government spending, Governor Jim Doyle, the transformation of the United States into a Socialist state, and taxation.
However, as with any protest on either side of the political spectrum fringe groups made themselves known with big signs protesting a cornucopia of crazy, including Obama's plan for white slavery and the transformation of the United States into either a Communist or Fascist government. Before I present the signs below I'd like to note that there has been a great deal of chatter lambasting the teabaggers as a whole and marking them all as nutjobs. I spent more than an hour at the event and the majority of the people were courteous working class folks who are trying to make some sense out of a world that is in the midst of a major economic transformation. It was exciting to wander through this crowd and see democracy in action--even if I didn't necessarily share all of the opinions of the gathered mob. That said, it would be nice to see some cohesion of message in the future (for example, why was Republican Paul Ryan speaking? He voted for the bailout!), a harder push to keep the event non-partisan as the Wisconsin 9/12 folks proclaimed it would be, and less hyperbolic attack signs suggesting our country is spiraling out of control into fascism.
Jesse Russell
Co-Editor
Jesse was born and raised in Connecticut, began blogging in 1997, and moved to Madison in 2003. In 2005, he co-founded dane101 along with Kristian Knutson and Shane Wealti. In addition to helping nearly a dozen contributors run this website he's helped launch various events in the city including What's Your Damage?!, the MadPubQuiz of Awesomeness, the Fire Ball Masquerade, Dane101's Freakin' Halloweekend, and more.
Rally
Submitted by Shane Wealti on Thu, 2009-04-16 12:02.
Even if I disagree with their message I think its a good thing to see people getting excited about what is going on in government and trying to make change.
There are several problems I see with their movement:
1) The whole "socialist" thing. Anyone who thinks our government is socialist or anywhere near socialist has no idea what the word even means. If you throw around a loaded term like that and are constantly demonstrating that you have no idea what it means then it becomes hard to take your argument seriously.
I think they are using it as a pejorative term to describe progressive income taxation. They don't have much ground to stand on there. Even the father of modern Capitalism, Adam Smith was in favor of progressive income tax rates. He believed that rich people should pay more for two reasons 1) they benefit more from the economic infrastructure provided by government and 2) they have the ability to pay more without affecting their standard of living. Also, even the most conservative (mainstream) economists generally agree that a progressive income tax is a good idea. Even economists who argue in favor of a flat-tax allow for a large personal/family deduction effectively building progressivity into the tax structure.
The conservative/libertarian argument against progressive taxation has gained quite a bit of popularity since the 80s but it really isn't supported by economic theory as good public policy.
2) Grassroots movements aren't built "top-down". The thing that has really struck me is that there are all these people who have these strong opinions. Why haven't they been able to organize this type of thing on their own? Why is it being organized by certain political interest groups with an axe to grind? I would take them much more seriously if this was a true grassroots movement where small local groups of people were able to mobilize the resources to put on an event like this to air their grievances.
Also, I would throw the same
Submitted by Shane Wealti on Thu, 2009-04-16 12:21.
Also, I would throw the same criticism at many of the anti-war protesters on the left who called Bush Fascist and Hitler and other such hyperbole. Those people should not be taken seriously either.
The difference being that
Submitted by Jeff (not verified) on Fri, 2009-04-17 13:21.
The difference being that Bush was actually running a Fascist stile government (see The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism by Dr. Lawrence Britt) while those who call the Obama administration fascist are either ignorant of the definition or willfully out to deceive.
Wow, quite the spectrum there
Submitted by Jon Hendrix on Thu, 2009-04-16 12:38.
From reasonable to fringe loonyness - random reactions to the more "out there" ones:
Comparing goverment leaders to Hitler? (Nor am I sure everything Hitler did was legal.) Also - White Slavery and the Anti-Christ? What? I would have asked that guy what he meant, but I'm afraid it take several hours.
I amy not be a "socialist liberal political" but as someone who knows basic grammar, I am scared. (Maybe they should increase funding for his home school district).
What the heck does Ruby Ridge have to do with this? Was that just an old sign they had hanging around?
Don't Tread on Me signs and flags still strike me as kind of awesome.
Go White Supremacists
Submitted by Irish Frog (not verified) on Thu, 2009-04-16 12:45.
My criticism of the protesters would begin with spelling and grammar. Please, Barack Obama's name has only one R in it. The guy with the socialist sign on a piece of cardboard seems to have trouble with "your" and "you're". I'm glad we were able to prove Godwin's Hitler law. How do you expect people to take you seriously when your core believers seem to have trouble telling fantasy from reality?
Oh, and the Ruby Ridge guy freaked me out.
Teabaggin'
Submitted by Adam Schabow on Thu, 2009-04-16 13:18.
I have a conservative friend in Appleton that went to the “tea baggin” party there (we’re having a bit of a back and forth via Facebook). He admitted there was some crazies there and I, too, told him, that I respect him getting involved and exercising his rights.
Ultimately, these tea party rallies across the country, were pretty much a failure.…although admittedly, I’m surprised at these pictures. It looks like a pretty good crowd for Madison.
I’ve heard the argument from conservatives that said these rallies weren’t a republican/democrat issue, it’s an American issue and saw very little anti-Obama message at the tea party he went to. So if that was case, where were these people when Bush was building up this ridiculous deficit? Also, as of right now, I believe there has only been one tax increase since President Obama came into Office…and that was the cigarette tax increase (which I happen to disagree with).
Oh yeah, also, see ya later Texas!!!
It's nice to see a protest
Submitted by spleen (not verified) on Thu, 2009-04-16 13:24.
It's nice to see a protest that involves working class people instead of just liberal college students and hippies.
Also nice to see the unbiased reporting of this article. If nothing else, it will make me pick up my local newspaper to support them. They at least pretend to be unbiased.
It would probably help if you
Submitted by Jesse Russell on Thu, 2009-04-16 14:34.
It would probably help if you would take the time and read the content before commenting on it. This was in no way a journalistic piece and is clearly commentary on my part, but maybe your inability to discern commentary from journalism is part of the problem?
my fault
Submitted by spleen (not verified) on Thu, 2009-04-16 21:58.
No you're right, it is my fault for coming to a left-wing blog and expecting real journalism. I won't make the mistake again.
of course!
Submitted by Andy Kilgore on Fri, 2009-04-17 01:10.
That's it! If you don't like what you see, just go away! Ignore it, don't try to understand the other side, just run back to the safety of Drudge Report or Fox News. Don't make any attempt to see where the other side is coming from.
Let's keep everything the same as it's been for the last 15 years - Clinton was an amoral whore, Bush was a facist nazi, Obama is a commie hippy. Lets keep the anger, hate, and divisiveness going. Let's ignore that we're all Americans and keep going with this Conservative vs Liberal bullshit and only one side can truly be correct. The only way that the U.S. can go forward is if we all plug our ears and yell "nyah nyah nyah" when the other side is talking.
OR we could do something different. We can come out from behind the left/right crap - escape the grips of the Fox News/MSNBC ideology and take control of the debate. As much as I'll point out that your political beliefs are not correct I'll be as quick to point out that mine are not either - far from it. Both sides must talk this out, make both of our viewpoints heard and acknowledged. If we do it right, neither you nor I will be happy, but we'll have agreed on something.
So lets start this. What's broken, how can it be fixed? What are you, a Conservative, doing to help this country out of its crap state? What can I, a Liberal, do with you to help this country out of it's current crap state? I eagerly await your response.
disappointed
Submitted by JD (not verified) on Mon, 2009-04-20 00:21.
While the pictures tell a very interesting story, I tend to agree with Spleen's comments to a point. It seems as though there was an opportunity lost here to gauge what Wisconsinites were really upset about. Is it balling out banks and other corporations? Is it building infrastructure? What exactly has these people so worked up that they likely took some time off from their jobs to attend this event and make their voice heard?
If you are going to take a "side," why not make sure the other side is represented? Why not give Spleen or someone like him an open forum to write his thoughts from the Tea Party rather that ripping on him in the comments? Andy makes a valid point below that applies to both he reader AND the writer.
Open forum
Submitted by Jesse Russell on Mon, 2009-04-20 07:37.
Dane101 is an open forum. I'd love for "spleen" or someone who holds his position to write a column for dane101. We've featured both conservative and liberal voices on this website. All he needs to do is email us with a time frame of when he expects to have the piece done, the topic, and submit the commentary under his real name. The latter stipulation is applied to all commentary because we believe very much in owning your own words here at dane101. The forum is open in both the comments section and on the front page. All one needs do is ask. As for this part of your comment:
I totally agreed with you. I suggested there was an inherent problem at this rally because whatever the message is was lost. Many of those in the audience were upset about taxes, many were upset about the bailout, many were upset about spending in the state of Wisconsin. As I wrote, if the group is upset about the bailout and the spending of TARP money why did they allow Rep. Paul Ryan to speak? I'd really like someone to answer that question.
The Real Problem
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 2009-04-16 13:39.
I thought the whole thing is pretty much a continuation of the distractive arguments between the left and right hands belonging to the same body.
The socialism that is not only near but which we are moving into is not to be compared to the classical meaning, rather a new hybrid of socialism, fascism, and democracy. What I cannot add is Republic which is what this country was, a republic.
The problem is the federal reserve bank. Their loaning of fiat money to government at interest and us paying it back through income tax is the problem. No income tax before the federal reserve, no need for the privately owned, for profit federal reserve bank now.
As long as we argue repulicans vs democrates the bankers will sit back and watch with glee as they maintain their absolute control of finance.
Call me a conspiracy nut if you like. It is a conspiracy, and until more people get active, it will never change.
In 1986 Ronald Reagan was presented with the Grace commission report wich concluded that 100% of all individual federal income tax collected is paid straight to the interest owed the federal reserve bank.
That is the problem, not Bush, not Obama. The federal reserve bank. Stand up.
Okay
Submitted by Jon Hendrix on Thu, 2009-04-16 14:07.
So, if we abolish the Federal Reserve, then what? If there is a bank run, who will loan them money? Are you just going to let interest rates and money supply float freely?
Keep in mind that pre-Fed, it was the large banks who acted in the role the fed has now. Do you want to return to that system?
Then what
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 2009-04-16 14:31.
Twice before the federal reserve there were attempts at a central bank, both failed. The federal reserve finally passed on a partisan vote and backed by Wilson only because the bankers paid for his campaign. He later stated that he had unwittingly ruined his country.
The federal reserve interest rate is nothing more than what they are charging the government to loan the money, money which is backed by nothing. this would disappear with the Fed.
Frational reserve banking is the policy of having $100 dollars but loaning $1000. this is a product of the central banking theory and would also disappear, and with it "bank runs"
Basing currency on a tangible backing such as silver like Kennedy was in the process of doing. He was killing the Fed and this is why he was assasinated, Oswalds wife has admitted this. You may even have some of Kennedys' silver certificates as collecters items.
A central bank is not needed.
Aaaaand...
Submitted by Emily Mills on Thu, 2009-04-16 14:51.
...here come the many and varied conspiracy theories.
You know, we did once base our currency on the "tangible backing" of gold. And guess what? It was a terrible wreck of an idea that left various countries in various states of recession and depression. No one uses that system anymore, and for good reason.
There is only a finite supply of gold (or silver, or copper, or whatever other "tangible backing" you might name) on this earth. The total amount of gold estimated to have ever been mined would equal trillions less than what's currently in circulation in the US alone. Switching to that sort of backing would cause a massive collapse of the economy, greater by far than what we're seeing now. Plus, only those countries with access to mining equipment and reserves would be able to increase their currency supplies. How does that make sense?
I'm not by any means arguing that our current system is perfect or cannot be abused. But it strikes me that moving backwards to a system already long outdated is not the way forward.
To Anonymous
Submitted by Jon Hendrix on Thu, 2009-04-16 15:46.
Actually fractional reserve banking predates central banking. I understand your historical points, but I don't see how they answer my questions.
Would you allow people to convert paper dollars into gold in this system? What would happen if a large foreign bank, such as China's central bank, decided to manipulate our currency, such as through buying up dollars and then dumping them on the market or exchanging them for gold? What if an emergency existed which the government could not fund by itself - from where would they get the money/gold?
I'm genuinely curious.
But they're OUR teabaggers
Submitted by Maddie Greene on Thu, 2009-04-16 15:04.
The Huffington Post is running one of these photos but crediting it to someone in Chicago. Despite the anti-Doyle sign in the background. Despite the Creative Commons attribution condition.
Chicago is taking credit for Madison's teabaggers! This aggression will not stand, man.
Madison's gone downhill.
Submitted by Lee Bartholomew (not verified) on Fri, 2009-04-17 01:24.
Had no idea Madison had such radical folk there. Fortunately, there's alot of people in Madison. But holding a KKK rally in the square kinda sucks. :( Lotta good memories there, this isn't one of them. Guess everyone's just waiting for someone like 100-200 liberals to get blown up in this revolution they are claiming. Had 8 years of anti war protests that people were beaten up on... (because they were in such LARGE numbers) but a few show up and it's supposed to change things. Especiallly the idiot displaying that liberals should be scared of one guy. Yeah hope he doesn't kill anyone. Never seen such hate. And in all places Madison WI's square.
Irony defined in the sign
Submitted by Bill (not verified) on Fri, 2009-04-17 07:30.
Irony defined in the sign "There were 1.5 million people at the inauguration and only 14 missed work." Wasn't Wednesday a work day in Madison?
Name one Republican program that has ever raised the overall standard of living or made life better for working people.
This event was a chance for all those outside the political mainstream to protest the fact that they lost the election. Sorry folks, that's democracy. Now get on the bus to make America thrive again. The Bush tax cuts and trickle-down economics have been discredited.
I've recently started reading
Submitted by Irish Frog (not verified) on Wed, 2009-08-12 14:58.
I've recently started reading Madison's The Progressive magazine. They're pretty good most of the time, and it's local which is nice.
However, it looks like they are using one of your photos, Jesse, without attribution. I know the Huffington Post did this for a while and was able to fix their tags, maybe you can ask Matt Rothschild to fix his tags as well.
http://www.progressive.org/wx081209.html
Oi!
Submitted by Jesse Russell on Wed, 2009-08-12 15:22.
I've been chasing my photo all across progressive/liberal websites trying to get proper attribution. Egads. Thank you for the heads up Irish Frog!
Free Speech in Action
Submitted by Bill (not verified) on Sat, 2009-08-15 00:09.
It is encouraging to see American's speak up against big corporate bailouts and buyouts of corporate America, while smaller companies and banks are left to twist in the wind due to the mess caused by irresponsible financial giants. Hopefully the people that can do something about it are listening.
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